22K Guardian won't transfer back to utility

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MaMo
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Mon Aug 05, 2019 5:42 pm

OK here's the deal. I have a brand new 22K Guardian model # G0070432 with a 200 amp ATS. Upon installation the yellow/black wire from the upper coil snapped off. No big deal I figured and soldered it back on. Then like a dumb ass I knocked it off again after turning on utility power supply and it arc'd off of the upper coil and tripped the main breaker. So with utility power supply off I re soldered the yellow/black wire back onto upper coil again and figured all was good now. ATS will transfer to gen but won't transfer back to utility. Generator will not go into auto mode and I had read about the SACM fuses n1,n2, and t1 so I checked fuses and all are good. What I did find though is that n2 did not have 120v to it even with a good fuse. When I put the meter on the upper coil there is no voltage. When I manually turn gen on the lower coil shows voltage so I would imagine that when in utility mode it would show voltage on the upper coil but it did not. So next step was looking at the little toggle switch thing that is before the coil and the orange wire plugged into the top of the little switch showed 120v. Bottom Black wire showed no voltage. So out of curiosity i bypassed the little toggle switch and hooked orange wire to upper coil where black wire is and sure enough I had power back to SACM n2 fuse. OK so what the heck did I just figure out? I'm assuming the SACM is not fried because upon jumping it showed120 on n2 fuse when it did not before. So I think it would be the coil or the toggle switch before the coil. I have read and tested myself stupid :wtf: Can someone explain how to fully figure out if it is the upper coil or the toggle switch that supplies power to the upper coil or if i'm totally wrong in all of this. Thanks
Chris
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Mon Aug 05, 2019 5:50 pm

Define 'toggle switch'... Are we talking about the limit switch that's cutting power to the coil when the transfer switch is moved into the utility position? The coils are only energized with 240V power for a split second until the transfer is complete and then the limit switch shuts power off. If power were to stay on to the coil, they would burn up.

Can you take some pics and post them so we have some idea of what is going on there and what has been changed/bypassed?
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MaMo
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Mon Aug 05, 2019 6:12 pm

The change/bypass was only for a second so I could see if the n2 SACM fuse had power restored to it and it did. It's back to how it originally was except the yellow/black wire is soldered on instead of slid on with wire connector. Yes i'm referring to the limit switch, sorry. I can take a pic but it will have to wait till this evening when i get home. Thanks
Chris
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Mon Aug 05, 2019 6:25 pm

Well, N1/N2 power comes to the load shed module right from the N1/N2 terminals on the contactor assembly. So if you're not getting power there, it makes me think something else is going on, or possibly the load shed module got smoked? Power for N2 doesn't pass through the coil to that fuse, sounds more like a backfeed and just coincidence. I don't have a wiring diagram right in front of me for this though.
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MaMo
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Mon Aug 05, 2019 8:57 pm

Here are 2 pics of my ATS. Thanks
Attachments
IMG_20190805_172737509.jpg
Upper and Lower Coils
IMG_20190805_172737509.jpg (112.18 KiB) Viewed 173 times
IMG_20190805_172731126.jpg
Whole ATS
IMG_20190805_172731126.jpg (94.29 KiB) Viewed 173 times
Chris
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Tue Aug 06, 2019 8:58 am

My goodness there's a lot of wire crammed into small conduits there! I give someone credit haha :ahh: Also, not that it matters much, but the arc shield is on upside down.

Are you sure that the coil has a compete path through it (meaning that a meter will measure resistance through both connectors with nothing else connected)

Here is the schematic for that switch if you want to follow it around and make sure that things are done correctly.
Transfer Switch Wiring Diagram.JPG
200A Transfer Switch Wiring Diagram
Transfer Switch Wiring Diagram.JPG (93.9 KiB) Viewed 170 times
Generac tech for over 12 years. I'm here to help!
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MaMo
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Wed Aug 07, 2019 11:20 am

Awesome, thanks. Give me a couple days and I'll post my findings.
MaMo
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Thu Aug 08, 2019 4:14 pm

Chris wrote:
Tue Aug 06, 2019 8:58 am
My goodness there's a lot of wire crammed into small conduits there! I give someone credit haha :ahh: Also, not that it matters much, but the arc shield is on upside down.

Are you sure that the coil has a compete path through it (meaning that a meter will measure resistance through both connectors with nothing else connected)

Yeah that conduit is is a little small. We actually had our own laughs with that. There's another story that goes to that :lmao:

as far as a complete path through C1 I don't think so. There is no continuity and infinite ohms with meter leads on 1 and 2 of C1.

Also I checked a few other readings and marked them on the pic you had sent. N2a going into slot 6 on connector has 120v. N2a coming out of slot 5 on connector has 0 v. Slot 2 on connector (wire 126) has 120v. Also N2 Fuse is good but 0 v, N1 fuse 120 v, T1 fuse 120v. To me it's the brain or the coil or both :cry: . Limit switch tested fine. I really don't want to throw parts at it so I hope you can point me in the right direction to isolate this problem exactly. I'm in no rush as it's totally works fine in manual mode so I can use it if needed but would like it to work properly at some point
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Transfer Switch Wiring Diagram with text.jpg
Transfer Switch Wiring Diagram with text.jpg (98.94 KiB) Viewed 158 times
Chris
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Thu Aug 08, 2019 4:49 pm

So you have 0 volts on either side of the N2 fuse? If there's voltage on the N2A from the buss bar but not out of the load shed module, I'd say the module is probably toasted. C1 (utility coil) should have resistance through it since it's just one giant coil of wire inside. It it shows open, that is also bad... :sad:
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MaMo
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Fri Aug 09, 2019 3:25 pm

I have found the coil I need and have ordered it but what I can't figure out now is how to remove the old one. I removed the two screws holding it but am unsure if those are the only 2 screws and that's all. I tried to get it off but it's not coming off and I don't wanna break more stuff. It did get loose though.


Also do you know where I can find the load shed module for purchase? I searched for hrs and can only find an older looking one that's not quite the same. Mine is ATS model # 10000011659 and the sticker on the load shed module says 10000004183 rev. D

Thanks
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